Topic: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS (Read 302 times)
scurvy Showrod Jedi Master Klown member is offline
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Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Thread Started on Oct 14, 2009, 8:56pm »
I've been researching '60s era altereds for a build I'm starting, and I have a questions for anybody here who might have a clue:
Was it legal for altereds to run spoke wheels up front?
Seems like every pic I've got has altereds running either 18/19/21" twelve-spoke American spindle-mounts, 15" Halibrand or American 5-spoke spindle mounts, or some budget bolt-on wheel up front. I have bookmarked ONE pic of an Altered with 19-inch spokes up front, but it's at a car show, and not at the strip. This would lead me to believe that they were required to use non-wire wheel, but I can't verify it. If I have to, I can use a set of 15" kidneybeans up front, or build my own 12-spokes in 1/12 scale, but I'd really rather just use the wire wheels I've saved from a couple of Casper trike kits, and save my hard work for scratchbuilding the brass frame for this thing.
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RatRod Showrod Jedi Master Klown member is offline
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Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #1 on Oct 15, 2009, 12:20am »
That's a good question Dave, I did some googling, but found nothing yet. It's funny that dragsters used wires throughout the years, but it might be that with more weight over the wheels themselves, and the violent behavior of the fuel altereds, that it could have been a rule. I dunno.....
Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #2 on Oct 15, 2009, 1:31am »
To my knowledge John is right,
It would be hard to dig up an old NHRA rulebook, I'm going to Bakersfield this weekend & if I can find Steve Gibbs (competition director for NHRA) I'll ask him as he could know... BUT I believe John's point about weight distribution is accurate. I do know that the 392 hemi is one of the heaviest engines in automotive production, followed by the 460 Ford. I doubt those motorcycle wheels (as cool as they look) would withstand too many sideways wheelies...
robriley Showrod Jedi Master Klown member is offline
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Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #3 on Oct 15, 2009, 6:35am »
that's what i was thinking too. The wire wheels may not have been able to withstand the violence of a fuel altered wanting to twist and torque sideways. Weight probably has something to do with it as well, but i have no idea if it was a rule not to run the wire wheels. I think it may have just been common sense among the drivers. it's diffucult to find this exact information....but that is a very good question.
Joined: Oct 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 300 Location: Out where the buses don't run.
Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #4 on Oct 15, 2009, 8:47am »
It's just a guess but if the NHRA had brought in a rule banning spoked wheels on Altereds (or any other class for that matter) I would expect to have seen pictures of cars running spokes before the ban kicked in but, like the rest of guys, I've never seen a single photo of an altered running 'em on the strip.
Maybe common sense did prevail as not only would a bike wheel be a lot weaker than a cast job but a steel rim and 30+ steel spokes would usually weigh more than an ally rim as well (which would explain why dragsters used them, more weight up the front). And they're a pig to keep clean!
Starry Eyes Showrod Jedi Master Klown member is offline
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Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #5 on Oct 15, 2009, 9:19am »
it's my understanding that because spoke wheels back in the day used tubes that there was a significant vibration factor which could be eliminated and decrease ET and increase drivability..
it's my understanding that because spoke wheels back in the day used tubes that there was a significant vibration factor which could be eliminated and decrease ET and increase drivability..
It all makes sense, and goes along with what I was thinking... just thought chromed spokes up front would LOOK cool, you know? Anyway, guess I'll scratchbuild some 12-spokes for my Fiat.
It would be hard to dig up an old NHRA rulebook, I'm going to Bakersfield this weekend & if I can find Steve Gibbs (competition director for NHRA) I'll ask him as he could know... BUT I believe John's point about weight distribution is accurate. I do know that the 392 hemi is one of the heaviest engines in automotive production, followed by the 460 Ford. I doubt those motorcycle wheels (as cool as they look) would withstand too many sideways wheelies...
Hizoot
I was figuring my Altered would be a huffed, 301c.i. SBC-powered gas Altered. This was the high-revving mid-60s parts mix of 265/283/327 that was basically the same combo Chevy later used for the Z-28's "302". My question will apply to a AA/A and not a AA/FA, if we need to be precise.
Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #8 on Oct 15, 2009, 6:17pm »
Yes Dave,
The Chevy 302 was a 283 with a .030 bore & solid lifters for more RPM. In plastic, no one will know the difference in the "small block" engines... As for AA/A that could get confusing because you could end up using AA/GS rules incorperated as well...
What I'd do is research the old Fuel Roadster class A/FR or A/HR pre 1960 as I found that Tony Walter's "Barnstormer" Fuel Roadster DID HAVE SPOKED WHEELS. A 27 Ford with stretched wheel base, it was runner up in Bakersfield in 1959 to Don Garlites AA/FD. Then parked until Ray Mattelli drove it in 1965.
If you'd rather not deal with all that homework, I understand so here's a treat for all..!
Dr. Kerry Recovering Rivet Counter member is offline
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Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #9 on Oct 15, 2009, 6:39pm »
I think some tried them and that's what happened, they weren't strong enough to hold up to the violent runs the altereds made. I have a friend of mine that may know more. I'll send him an email and link to this thread.
scurvy Showrod Jedi Master Klown member is offline
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Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #10 on Oct 15, 2009, 7:31pm »
Yeah - the 301 was (I believe) like a 327 with a 283 crank (or was it the other way around?)... high revver. I figured I'd proudly display the displacement, as was prevalent in the '60s on so many drag cars. I'm avoiding the fuel altereds, but only because I like the funkier look many of the gas altereds were sporting, and the fact that engines stayed up high in the chassis on the gas altereds a little longer than they did in most of the nitro-burners, which is the look that I'm in love with. ANyway, I've committed to building half a 18" 12-spoker so a mold can be made, and I can resin-cast a few copies to get this thing on proper rolling stock. Rears will be slicks on Cragars from the Casper trike kit. Paint will be fogged/paneled/laced/leafed... you name it. Should be fun.
Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #13 on Oct 16, 2009, 1:40am »
Go ahead & call it a 301 Dave,
I wouldn't worry about cid unless my name was Flounder...LOL..! What you have sounds kewl, prop the mill up in the air & let the big dog fly..! The A/HR is the oldest known class for any gas or fuel altered I know of, if I can find anything older, I'll let ya know... BTW competition resins makes 12 spokes in 1/25th scale, I didn't think much of them & changed them into 6 spoke for my fuel coupe... Good luck !
Dr. Kerry Recovering Rivet Counter member is offline
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Re: Okay, maybe one of you can tell me...ALTEREDS « Reply #14 on Oct 16, 2009, 2:36pm »
Marty sent me some info and there were a few more cars with wires. The "Crazy Horse" Fiat was one and there were a couple more he sent. SO I'd say there were some that ran wires on a regular basis...
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